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Holly Village to hike sewer rates

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Written by Amy Mayhew
Wednesday, January 27 2010

Don Winglemire

HOLLY, Michigan – A shortfall of approximately $182,000 in the sewer fund is to blame for Village Council’s decision to hike sewer rates, effective in March.

The last increase for sewer services occurred in July 2009, when village officials increased consumption rates from $6.56 per 1,000 gallons to $8.70 per 1,000 gallons with a $10 service fee per household.

Water rates continue to hold steady at $6.60 per 1,000 gallons of water.

Councilman Don Winglemire, chairman of the Public Works Committee, made the recommendation for the latest increase during the Village Council meeting Tuesday.

“As you all know, we have quite an investment in these areas, and of course the investment has to be paid for,” Winglemire said. “The good news is that we’re not asking to change the usage funds of sewer or water and also not the usage fee for water.”  In a vote of 2-1, Winglemire said it was the committee’s recommendation to tack an additional $5 per month fee onto sewer rates.

Village President Pete Clemens, who also serves on the Public Works Committee, said he joined Winglemire in voting “yes” on the issue. “It makes me ill every time I have to do this,” Clemens said. “But there really is no choice – the bonds must be paid.”


Rather than raising consumption fees, Village Manager Marsha Powers said the debt service fee is a way of raising monies from unoccupied homes. “When we increase the debt service fee, you’re hitting the unoccupied homes and that's where we don’t have usage, so increasing usage would not benefit us from those vacancies,” she said.  Powers did say, however, that the village would be revisiting consumption rates after July 1.

Powers told council members that she had contacted the attorney and legal representatives for the bonds, Miller Canfield to inquire about refinancing. Powers said she was told municipalities could only refinance when it was “economically feasible.”

“Right now they’re saying it’s not economically feasible, but there is legislation that is currently before the House and the Senate to look at allowing communities to do this because we’re all in the same boat with everyone else – nobody has enough money to pay bonds out on water and sewer projects,” she said.

Before the vote, village resident Lenore Johnson said, “I love the town, but the taxes are exorbitant, and the sewer and water really has me upset. I know there were a number of people in my neighborhood that were not being charged for one or two or perhaps three of their water meters, and I can’t understand how that could happen.”

Having moved to Holly a little over a year ago from Waterford, Johnson made a comparison.

“I’m a two-family house and my water bill monthly is exceeding what I paid quarterly in Waterford,” she said. “I think for senior citizens it’s getting to be a very big expense – I know council is in a difficult place, but as a resident, I would like to voice my concern and my objection.”

“For the record, I opposed (the sewer increase) because I do not think that we can afford to have any higher water bills,” Councilman and Public Works Committee member Bill Kuyk said. “We’re really between a rock and a hard place, but we have to pay the bonds.”

With a motion by Winglemire and a second by Councilwoman Pauline Kenner, council approved the rate increase in a vote of 6-1, with Kuyk casting the dissenting vote.


Comments   

 
#1 Rob Namowicz 1999-11-29 20:00
Amazing the number of small Michigan towns and villages in trouble with water projects. Is the problem in the water tap or the sewer pipe? Seems both ends are causing problems not just in Holly but wherever government controls the spigot. And remember we are surrounded by 20% of the planets' fresh water. What's up with that? Kind of makes you miss the cistern and cess pool doesn't it?
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#2 Goodman 1999-11-29 20:00
When can we vote on becoming a city?
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#3 Jason Hughes 1999-11-29 20:00
Pete, I wasn't aware that the village paid for the elections, library, county and school tax collections, etc. It wasn't until recently that I really started looking into the differences between the municipalities.

By the way, I would like to thank you (and others like Jesse) for being a member of this online community and contributing to discussions.
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#4 Larry 1999-11-29 20:00
Ah yes those heady days of wafting cess pool stench, arsenic poisoning, cholera, and a forty five year average life expectancy, those were the good old days. Sometimes government involvement isnââà ƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ã ¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¾Ã‚¢t such a bad thing after all.
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#5 Peter Clemens 1999-11-29 20:00
Jason,

The Village already pays for the services that are provided to us by the Township. In fact we pay nearly twice the cost of these services every year.
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#6 Janet Leslie 1999-11-29 20:00
Speaking strictly as a resident and not in any official capacity, I would like to see the village and township share and consolidate resources wherever possible before taking any drastic steps which may or may not result in savings to taxpayers.

Village property owner Mr. Bob Hoffman has suggested many times publicly that the village and township should share office space. I think that's a brilliant idea. As a former office planner, I am certain both governments are occupying more office space than necessary. We could also then share equipment such as copy machines and phones.

We could consider sharing the administration of our websites. Perhaps sharing the cost of administration would allow us to have an off-site professional updating them daily. This would make the sites much more useful to residents and potential residents. Even better, we could share one website administered by one company, a sort of online kiosk for information on all things "Holly." There could be links to Village, Township, DDA, and Chamber of Commerce pages. Better yet, there could be a search window so that a person looking for specific information would be taken directly to it, regardless of whether it's Village or Township business. Why not make it easy for people to get information, while also saving both governments money?

If we begin first to work together to save taxpayers money, perhaps there will be less distrust if other forms of cooperation must be discussed in the future.
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#7 Jason Hughes 1999-11-29 20:00
I have only done a handful of research on the differences between cityhood vs village vs township but from everything that I have seen, cityhood doesn't mean bigger government.

The only way to reduce government that I can tell is to combine the village and the township or cityhood (which makes residents completely independent of the township). Both of these would reduce the government from a village residents perspective.

What I haven't found is whether the monies from the state/fed would make it worth the increased cost of cityhood to pay for the services that are currently provided by the township. If those monies were enough to offset that then there is definate reason for consideration.
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#8 Joe 1999-11-29 20:00
If Former Council President "J" runs - and is elected - it will be another step backwards for the Village. Again, this town needs fresh, young leadership with new ideas, not the same old faces that are mired in 'what used to be', who are motivated by their fears.
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#9 Mark Freeman 1999-11-29 20:00
The Michigan Townships Association has just released a study, "Smaller Government is More Efficient and Less Expensive." Excerpt; "Making smaller governments into bigger governments will most certainly drive the cost of government up, not down." The complete study is 44 pages and can be found at www.michigantownships.org.
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#10 Peter Clemens 1999-11-29 20:00
Grace,

Thanks for your suggestion. Unfortunately under the current law the Village is unable to restructure our debt unless there is a financial gain to the Village. But, with so many other communities in Michigan facing the same situation as Holly, The State legislature has a golden opportunity to change those rules. May I suggest that anyone within earshot take a few moments to e-mail our State Senator, Nancy Cassis at and our State Representative, Jim Marleau at and urge them to approve HB 5550 thru 5554. We will be watching these bills very closely.
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#11 Larry 1999-11-29 20:00
So the michigan townships association actually paid someone to tell us that if you spend less on government it will cost us less? Thats brilliant how come nobody ever thought of that before? Surely theres a sailient point to this post.
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#12 Larry 1999-11-29 20:00
Don't forget about the other J that is planning to run. Former council president J has been blabbing all over town that he want's his old seat back. He says that wants to restore dignity to the presidency! What a joke, he apparently forgot the mess that he left this village in when he left office.
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#13 Grace 1999-11-29 20:00
FYI, K&J and are thinking about running for Council. Can you imgine. What ever J says K does. They both need to get a life. It is to bad the Village is raising the rates again. I know I will find another way to lower my bill like I did after the last one.
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#14 Grace 1999-11-29 20:00
Pete,
Talk to the Chief, He got a good rate on the assessment. Loan.
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#15 Peter Clemens 1999-11-29 20:00
Brian S

You make some good points in your comment but a few of your finer points need some explanation. The water and sewer funds are enterprise funds, or in other words they must be run like and thought of as a business. The water fund sells water and the sewer fund sells the service of treating grey water. General fund money shouldn't be used to keep these funds afloat. However if General fund monies are used then this money must be considered a loan to these funds and must be paid back to the General fund with interest. My understanding is that the interest rate is pegged to the prime rate that banks use for the day that the loan is made, so you canââà ƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ã ¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¾Ã‚¢t low ball the interest rate. Really the only fix for these funds is continued consumption by the currant users and new consumption by future users. The Michigan House and Senate are debating a new law that will allow communities like Holly to extend out our bond payments. If passed, we could refinance our debt for a longer period. This would really help our consumers, and could even allow for a reduction in rates (fingers crossed). The Village really doesnâà¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ãà ‚¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t have its own parks department per se but rather park work is done by the DPW. The Township doesnâà¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ãà ‚¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t have its own DPW, but occasionally relies on the Village DPW to do minor work as needed. The thought of consolidating office space is intriguing and even possible, although on-sight record storage is a problem as the two governments have amassed an amazing amount of records over the last one hundred and fifty years. Nevertheless, perhaps something could be worked out. And lastly, the Township is 36 square miles and the village is a self determining 2.5 square mile subdivision of the township. And while we have two functioning governmental bodies, there is surprisingly little duplication of work.
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#16 Robert 1999-11-29 20:00
You make allot of sense Brian.
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#17 Brian S 1999-11-29 20:00
Robert, just as an aside, but I would hardly list Iran as a place where people just sit around and accept their fate. Neda Agha-Soltan would also disagree.

As for the issue at hand, the simple fact of the matter is that the bonds must be paid. The only way to avoid peoples' bills going up is to offset the cost somewhere else. The community needs to leverage economies of scale. Do the township and the village each need its own parks department? DPW? How about consolidating websites? Consolidating office space? I understand that some things need to be kept seperate for legal reasons, but where is duplication between the governments, that work should be consolidated if possible. How much government do you need for 2.5 square miles?

Also, I return to my favorite subject, the library. The library should be run as a regional non-profit and the millage greatly reduced or eliminated.
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#18 Cindy 1999-11-29 20:00
Has anyone checked out the possibility of grant support for the public works / waste treatment plant? The epa.gov site has some details specifically for waste treatment grants for rural areas. Of course, the Michigan Recovery and Reinvestment website has all sorts of offerings - though most of them are now closed.
Does anyone check out these opportunities for assistance?
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#19 Robert 1999-11-29 20:00
You know Larry if you have a problem with my opinion on something by all means take it on. If you think Iââà¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ã¢à ƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¾Ã‚¢m wrong about our PD being to big explain why. If you think my thinking is wrong about not becoming a city explain why. Lobbing a name at me does nothing.

Other than poking at our elected officials and perhaps inferring that some would make good clowns, which is totally excepted free speech, Iââà¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ã¢à ƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¾Ã‚¢ve not called anyone personally on here names. Itââà ¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚¬Ã¢ „¢s not necessary and it makes you look bad Larry.

People who say that if you are unhappy with the council you yourself should run are misguided. Do you really think it would be practical for all 6500 plus village residents to run if they werenâà¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ãà ‚¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t happy? We have a representative form of government in which we elect representatives (in this case council) and then hold them accountable. Iââà¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ã¢à ƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¾Ã‚¢m sure Larry if you asked any council member they would say they fully expect criticism and that it goes with the job.

One can always move to Iran, China or Venezuela to name a few if you want to live in a system where everyone sits down, shuts up and excepts whatââ ‚¬à¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s done to them.
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#20 Goodman 1999-11-29 20:00
Robert, it seems the most important trait is to make many promises, fail to deliver to the extent that was promised, but then spend your term pretending you accomplished what you said you would. So if you have this trait, by all means, run.
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#21 Janet Leslie 1999-11-29 20:00
Goodman, how do you expect to get anyone new to run if you've already pre-qualified anyone who would run as being insincere? The job is challenging enough. Who will want the added obstacle of having to overcome your cynicism?
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#22 Goodman 1999-11-29 20:00
Cynicism is reversed through actions, not words. Prove me wrong.
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#23 Larry 1999-11-29 20:00
Don't bother trying to reform the Goodman/Robert type Janet. These two would complain if you offered to hang them with a new rope. Whiners whine and do-ers do. Yo can't change human nature.
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#24 Goodman 1999-11-29 20:00
Larry, you keep your head in the sand (along with your misguided rope analogies), and we "Goodman/Robert" types will continue holding our elected representatives accountable. Ignore us all you want, but we were the ones who voted for change in the last election.

We need more do-ers.
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#25 Janet Leslie 1999-11-29 20:00
While I appreciate your humility Robert, I disagree that "there are certain traits and a personality you have to have as a politician." At the local level you don't have to be telegenic. You simply have to have common sense and a commitment to the community. We are all citizen politicians here. I wouldn't want anyone to avoid running for office because they think they don't have the right background or that they somehow don't fit the part. Do you care? Can you do the work? Then run.

"Sincerity and competence is a strong combination. In politics, it is everything." --Peggy Noonan
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#26 Robert 1999-11-29 20:00
George, whatââ ‚¬Ã ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s happening with the water bills is that yes they adapted the Plante Moran system which called for our bills to be based completely on consumption. This gives people more incentive to conserve and upgrade to low use toilets and washers. Previously we had these large âââ €šÂ¬Ã†¦ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…“baseà ¢ââ€Å ¡Ã‚¬Ã‚  rates we paid regardless of whether or not we used anything.

When the system is balanced they take in enough money to make the payment on debt and pay operational costs. However, every time someone leaves the system due to a foreclosure or other reason it leaves a slight shortage. The more people leave the bigger the shortage. There was also some meter issues with a couple people. So it has to be made up and thereâà¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ãà ‚¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s only one way to do that.

I was in favor of switching to the current consumption based system. My bill actually dropped slightly. However, with escalating rates another problem can happen. People with large bills may decide to cheat and that would be unfortunate for all of us. By cheating I donââà ƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ã ¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¾Ã‚¢t mean tampering with their meter either.

Larry, I seem to have touched a nerve with you. No I donââà ƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ã ¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¾Ã‚¢t have all the answers by any means. Just my opinion. Criticism of our political leaders goes back to the founding of this country and is a right we should all cherish. As far as running myself. Itââà ¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚¬Ã¢ „¢s not out of the question but extremely remote. Why? Well there are certain traits and a personality you have to have as a politician. Iââà¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ã¢à ƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¾Ã‚¢ve noticed similar traits with lawyers and some real estate agents. I do not have these traits. Iââà¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ã¢à ƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¾Ã‚¢m not saying they are good or bad traits mind you but simply that I do not have them.
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#27 George 1999-11-29 20:00
Wow, this comment thread has really meandered all over the board. I had to go back to the headline to remind myself what the article was even about. It is about the raise in the sewer rates due to a deficit of $182,000.

Going back to the Open Meetings Act issue, which was caused by a non-committee member being allowed to look at all of the names of the residents who have not been billed for their water usage, my question is this: Is the budget shortfall in the water & sewer caused by the group of residents who have been getting "free water" services for the past several years? And if so (and how could it not be), how much of the shortfall is due to this 'billing problem'?

If everyone were truly paying for what they used, would there have been a need to raise the rates on those of us who have been paying our bills? It seems that we are now forced to pay more so that we can carry the freeloaders.

Please tell me that I am reading all of this wrong and what the correct answer is.

Also, are we using the Plante Moran matrix that was the village bought during their analysis of the system to determine who should be paying what and when? Or are we just flying blind out there? There is no substitute for proper planning.
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#28 Larry 1999-11-29 20:00
recruiting like minded candidates for this fall? Why not step up to the plate yourself, since you claim to have all the answers.
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#29 Larry 1999-11-29 20:00
Or we could all just sit around and listen to you whine and complain all day long. Something that seems to come natural to you.
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#30 Robert 1999-11-29 20:00
You are right Larry. I have done allot of complaining here. I've always been way to busy and have always watched politics at a distance. This year is different for me and allot of people. I for one intend on taking a greater role in local politics and working on recruiting like minded candidates for this fall.
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#31 Robert 1999-11-29 20:00
You know after reading about these plans some have for bringing more people to downtown Holly and reading about the whole OMA episode it really got me thinking about a few things and I have some ideas of my own. If any of you have ever been to some larger cities like Chicago or New York or others down south youââà ƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ã ¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¾Ã‚¢ll have noticed that they often have street performers. Often these people are musicians or magicians and even some times clowns. They generally work for tips but in some cases the cities will actually pay them to perform so that they attract crowds and thus help surrounding businesses.
My thoughts and ideas didnââ ‚¬Ã ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t really come together and fully gel until I read the article âââ €šÂ¬Ã†¦ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…“Oakland County prosecutor denies Holly OMA allegationsâà ƒÆ’¢â€šÂ ¬ÃƒÆ’‚ from this site. Then it dawned on me. We could have clowns performing on the various corners of downtown. They could do ridicules stuff and say funny things that would show up on websites and newspapers and bring people from miles around to watch. Since our village council claims to have the citizens best interests in mind we could ask them to perform this task. Some seem to be naturally suited for this role while others would have to work at it.
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#32 Darrin 1999-11-29 20:00
Robert - I'm glad you agree w/ my original post. As mentioned, my notion regarding "marketing" merely reflects some low hanging fruit that should be taken care of, no questions asked. Of course, until we make headway on economic development and other such items that enhance the lifestyle of current/potential residents and visitors, then we don't have the strongest "product" to offer. And my laundry list of what should be happening is probably as long as yours.

And Janet, we will respectfully have to agree to disagree. Not everything requires a business case and taxpayer funding. For example, why wouldn't the Township and/or Village recruit a college intern this spring (unpaid, if required) to assist w/ updating and enhancing community marketing efforts? (e.g. website, etc). I did the exact same thing in college, loved every second of it, and contributed a great deal to the organization I supported.

My point is, where there's a will, there's a way. I don't believe everything requires moving a mountain, especially when there's sometimes little bypass that's only slightly off the beatin' path.
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#33 Robert 1999-11-29 20:00
Ryan you asked Mike G to provide examples? Check out the newest article on this site about the open meetings act.
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#34 Ryan 1999-11-29 20:00
Mike G: I challenge you to provide examples that demonstrate your generalization that Council members compete with each other. I won't dispute that the actions and priorities of individual council members may be suspect from time to time, but characterizing the entire body as power-grabbing bickerers doesn't make much sense.
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#35 Ryan 1999-11-29 20:00
Robert, fair enough. I stand by my point that it's not fair to generalize in that manner, but the latest news is certainly a spot case.
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#36 Robert 1999-11-29 20:00
You guys I hate to sound so cynical because really Iââà¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ã¢à ƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¾Ã‚¢m not. Iââà¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ã¢à ƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¾Ã‚¢m actually a very positive thinking person if you know me and I find nothing wrong with what you want to do.
However, fancy websites and splashy pamphlets arenââ ‚¬à¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t why people move to an area. No brochure will turn us into downtown Rochester. A microbrewery may have.

People move to a nice community because of what it costs to live there. We have to bring the cost of living in Holly Village down. One way is for property values to continue to drop. Unfortunately though that causes more people to leave than to move in. The other way is to bring our taxes down. We have to chip away at the 15 plus mills we pay here in the village. You all know where Iââà¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ã¢à ƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¾Ã‚¢d start.
Also, currently we are paying 7 mills for school debt due in most part to the new high school. I believe those bonds were either 20 or 30 year bonds. Does anyone know? The payment on that bond I believe was designed to ramp up and peak at 7 mills which is where we are now. Does anyone know when it begins to ramp down? That will certainly help of course.
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#37 Mike G 1999-11-29 20:00
The problem with our Village leaders is the same as the Federal Government. Everyone is trying to make a name for themselves. Instead of being a team and trying to go for the good over everyone, they are trying to excert power wherever they can. Our leaders need to get on the same page and stop competing with each other.
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#38 Janet Leslie 1999-11-29 20:00
Darrin, actually, permission is required to update a website (if by update you mean improve it as opposed to simply updating content) or to create a brochure. These projects can cost hundreds or thousands of tax dollars. Therefore, they must be part of a board-approved budget. Sometimes appealing to the masses is not the issue. Sometimes it takes the masses appealing to their representatives to get everyone agreeing on how the masses' money ought to be spent.

I truly appreciate your taking the time to share your view.
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#39 Jason Hughes 1999-11-29 20:00
Robert, just to clarify, I didn't mean to imply that you shouldn't feel infuriated. And believe me when I say you are not the first or even fifth person I have heard complain about the volume of patroling officers at any given time. It is a common complaint that I hear. I was just playing devils advocate for a moment and I truly value the discussion.
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#40 Janet Leslie 1999-11-29 20:00
Darrin, I share your frustration with the slow pace of progress. But I'm a realist, and as willing as I am to fight for an idea, I know not every cause I believe in will be greeted enthusiastically by my peers.

I had a delightful conversation at the Chamber of Commerce breakfast this morning with a successful local business owner who has lived in Holly her entire life. She gave me the very wise advice that if you push too hard for a new idea, the resistance from those who fear change will be overwhelming. But if you can be patient and concentrate on winning those small victories, eventually attitudes will change.

While I'd love to solve our major problems in one year's time, I think I'll stick to the promise I made during the election and help get the community ready to embrace opportunity when the economy begins to improve. That's going to take a lot of work, but getting people on board with that idea and in places where they can help is not such a bad start.
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#41 Darrin 1999-11-29 20:00
Janet, your approach is a reasonable one much of the time, particularly on larger issues. Yet so many minor things could be accomplished without having to placate the masses, especially on the marketing side. We don't need permission to update websites or create a brochure that could be used to entice surrounding communities to come pay us a visit. These things should just be done as a normal course of business...but they're not happening. And when we can't get the little things accomplished, there is little hope that the big things will ever turn around...
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#42 Robert 1999-11-29 20:00
Well Jason I knew someone would bring up and ask for those figures. I also would like them. I tried getting them and was getting nowhere. I should have asked for them while filling out all the paper work at the village. I would certainly hope our figures are significantly better given the amount of police service we have. But seriously, does anyone feel we are anymore safer than Fenton? Iââà¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ã¢à ƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¾Ã‚¢ll grant you that our response time is probably better or at least should be given the quantity of officers and smaller area.

Bringing up the graffiti issue Fenton had though is not a decent measure of police service. Holly has had graffiti as well in the past it just didnââ ‚¬Ã ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t make the front page of the Times. I could bring up our own crime issues like how many times the BP has been robed, were the people or person that robbed the credit union at the north end of town ever caught? What about that kid that was beaten to within an inch of his life a few years back in the Muffler man parking lot? What about the 4 people killed in their house on Grange Hall road 10 years ago? If someone is bent on committing a crime you canââà ƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ã ¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¾Ã‚¢t expect the police to be right there all the time. Police are good at reacting and finding out who did what. Iââà¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ã¢à ƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¾Ã‚¢d never suggest we get ride of our detective but is it money well spent to make sure everyone that goes 5 over on Saginaw is always caught? I know people that live in Fenton and they feel very safe even though they donââà ƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ã ¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¾Ã‚¢t see 2 or sometimes 3 cops when they drive from one end of town to the other.

Keep in mind Jason we also have the State Police near by and traveling through the village. Holly Village is geographically in the middle of their patrols. They patrol Rose, Holly and Groveland townships. Itââà ¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚¬Ã¢ „¢s not uncommon to see them in the village.

Why is this an issue with me? As someone that is struggling financially every dollar in my budget is accounted for and Iââà¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ã¢à ƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¾Ã‚¢m still short. When I see that the escrow amount of my mortgage payment is higher than the principle and interest it bothers me.
Then to hear our head politician have the attitude that geese, weââà ¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚¬Ã¢ „¢ve been doing this for twenty years and only the drunks and criminals have a problem with it infuriates me. Well now he is aware of at least one tax payer (the people whose money he manages) that also has a problem with it so I hope he never again says only the drunks and criminals have a problem with it. If someone needs to see 2 or sometimes 3 or 4 cop cars when they drive from one end of town to the other to feel safe they need to see a psychologist.
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#43 Jason Hughes 1999-11-29 20:00
Not that I disagree with any of your research Robert, but there is another statistic that should be viewed along with your comparison. What is the difference in crime rates between the two communities? Do we want Holly to experience the rash of graffiti on empty buildings and other such issues that Fenton has recently had? Not that Fenton is a hot bed for crime sprees, but we should be fairly comparing everything. This may end up showing us that Holly is right on with its level of police service and that Fenton is understaffed.

If anything, it may show us that Holly can afford to contract its PD services to neighboring communities at a very reasonable price. There is indeed value in your comparison but we need to compare all of it.
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#44 Darrin 1999-11-29 20:00
At the elected representative level, once we are over a year beyond the Nov '08 elections, there comes a point where 'having the right people in place' has a dwindling plausibility if we haven't made significant progress. I too have an MBA in Marketing, and while a lot needs to be done, I would be frustrated with myself if the current level of marketing for Holly is all I have to show for it. Truthfully, we have done some good things over the past year, but yet at the same time, it seems like we are overly conditioned to think that even some small victories should take months and months to accomplish.
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#45 Sandra 1999-11-29 20:00
Dayne,
If we default they can repo and it would be taken over by the State or another agency. Then just wait to see what they do with the rates. I don't think they would be reducing them any. I think it could even be sold to a private company and they would be looking to get their investment back so up up up go the rates.
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#46 Robert 1999-11-29 20:00
Also keep in mind that Fenton has an expressway running through it, more drinking establishments and more businesses to protect. This is all food for thought.
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#47 Robert 1999-11-29 20:00
Well itââà ¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚¬Ã¢ „¢s unfortunate that we canââà ƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ã ¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¾Ã‚¢t use any of the general fund to help offset our water/sewer troubles. However, we could cut the village budget to a point that it relieves the burden on village tax payers by a similar amount the water/sewer rates increase couldnâà¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚¬Ã ¢â€žÂ¢t we. Where would we cut? Well read further.
I had posted in another article and had a back and forth going with a few people including Pete Clemens. Pete said something that really got my curiosity peaked. While discussing the Holly PD he said âââ €šÂ¬Ã†¦ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…“We have the same number of police cars on the road at any given time as we have had for the last twenty yearsâà¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ãà ¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚.
Something didnââ ‚¬à¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t sound right to me. I didnââ ‚¬à¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t doubt this was true but I wondered wouldnâà¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚¬Ã ¢â€žÂ¢t a more appropriate comparison be to compare us with another city rather than our own status quo? Well my curiosity got the better of me and I did my own informal comparison. A quick phone call to Fenton got me the information I wanted. Unfortunately the Village made me fill out a Freedom Of Information Act form to get the information I was looking for about the Village and I see why.
First some stats. Fenton is approximately 6 sq. miles and has a population of 10,582. Holly Village is approximately 2 1/2 sq. miles (less than half of Fenton) and has a population of 6,079 (just over half that of Fenton).
Fenton has 14 full time officers and 6 full time dispatchers for a total of 20. This 14 includes the chief and detective. They have no part time help.
Holly has 13 full time officers plus 6 part time and 4 full time dispatchers plus 4 part time. The 13 includes the chief and detective. This was acording to the village.
So, we have less than half the land area, just over half the population but more police officers than Fenton.
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#48 dayne 1999-11-29 20:00
Let those bonds go into default. What could they do about it? Repo the water and sewer plant? lol. I gotta laugh cause this whole thing is just so sad.
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#49 Janet Leslie 1999-11-29 20:00
The water and sewer funds are "enterprise funds." It is by law that they must be self-sustaining. The only way to insert money into the funds is through issuing bonds (debt) and by billing for usage. Money can not come from the General Fund, donations, or anywhere else.

I know this only because I asked former Village Manager Aaron Oppenheimer these same questions over and over again two and a half years ago when the rates took that first enormous jump! I also learned at that time through contact with the State Attorney General's office that there is no regulation of water and sewer rates.
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#50 Janet Leslie 1999-11-29 20:00
Fortunately, we have a Township Supervisor with a Masters Degree in marketing and the motivation to improve that aspect of the community. We also have a highly motivated Downtown Merchant's Association that has already come together on marketing projects. We have a very active Chamber of Commerce. We have a couple of forward-thinking festival directors who are working together to improve the impact those events have on community marketing. And the Economic Development Task Force is working on developing a community-wide market research survey, conducted by a local company, Great Lakes Creative Marketing & Communications.

You could say our goals haven't been met yet, but I do believe we have many of the right people in place to make it happen.
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#51 Goodman 1999-11-29 20:00
We should just use some federal stimulus funds to make up the shortfall, like many other communities are doing.

Oh wait, we're not a city.

Nevermind.
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#52 Robert 1999-11-29 20:00
I have a question for Janet or Pete or anyone that knows the answer. Does the water/sewer system have to be self sustaining or can it be subsidized by the general fund? Is it the law that it has to be self sustaining or the choice of the Village Council? In other words could this almost 200k shortfall have been paid for out of the general fund by making cuts elsewhere thus relieving the burden on the struggling village residents?
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#53 Darrin 1999-11-29 20:00
Weââà ¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚¬Ã¢ „¢ve done a lot of talking about marketing Holly, but have very little to show for it. Sure we have a website for both the Village and Township, but are these sites jumping out at you as your look for destinations or communities in this area? No, you have to search for them. And when you do visit them, they leave a lot to be desired.

Here in the Township, we call ourselves âââ €šÂ¬Ã†¦ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…“Up North in Oakland Countyâà¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚¬Ã ‚, but you wouldnâà¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚¬Ã ¢â€žÂ¢t know this unless you search for the website. Can you imagine if Mackinac Islandâà¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚¬Ã ¢â€žÂ¢s only form of marketing was a slogan that was passively put out there for its year-round residents only?

After some digging, the Village site finally gets into some things to do (e.g. Dickens festival), but some of the links are outdated and take you nowhere. If you do not put in the effort to present yourself properly, no one will put in the effort to consider you a serious destination for residence or visiting. We must put some actions behind these desires and truly present Holly as a top-of-mind, desirable destination.

Don’t get me wrong, it takes a lot more than marketing to turn this around. First and foremost, we should really have âââ €šÂ¬Ã†¦ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…“our own house in orderâà¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ãà ¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚ to truly deliver a compelling value proposition. But we need to put our pride and actions where our mouths are, and only then can we start to make progress.
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#54 Robert 1999-11-29 20:00
Unfortunately we are all paying the price for poor decisions made earlier. It'll be years or decades before we ever see more development in the former Pulte subs. Another unfortunate truth is that property values will have to continue to decline before we get people to move to the Village.

Consider this. Almost everyone lives on a fixed monthly budget. The more a person pays every month for a water/sewer bill the less they have for their actual mortgage payment. This means they have to pay significantly less for a house in Holly Village in order to have the same monthly expenses as they would in a community say further south. One that is on the Detroit system.
I hate to be a downer but it's just the reality we are living in. Unfortunately there is not much the current council can do other than what they've done.

The one thing for sure this demonstrates is how important local elections are. Too often people don't pay attention to local elections and now we are all paying the price. This is not aimed at the current council.
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#55 Jason Hughes 1999-11-29 20:00
Very true Robert, which is why the marketing of Holly is so important. As a community we have to show that the value within our neighborhood is worth the added expenditure. Branding and marketing isn't really my area but it is something every successful community needs to make it a sought after destination for new residents.
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#56 Jason Hughes 1999-11-29 20:00
I swear I am not following Janet around and reposting her statements. She is beating me to the punch and submitting hers while I am writing mine.

I guess great minds think alike! ;-)
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#57 Jason Hughes 1999-11-29 20:00
There are a number of things that can be done but it takes a collective effort from everyone, not just council and village employees.

Making the population as dense as possible (filling every residence) means more taxes being paid. We have to successfully market Holly as a desirable community to live in. Positions in the village such as the DDA help to do this but it truly takes a community. A lot of the finger pointing and ridicule that is done, even on this blog is not helping to 'sell' Holly as a community. I am as guilty as others and have made attempts to be a little more selective in my comments.

This is obviously easier said than done but it is a collective effort. People are going to have second thoughts about moving to a community where neighbors bicker on public forums and blogs. It is bound to happen when a forum is available (look at the Hot Lines) but we can all make attempts to be more neighborly.

We have some geniune assets to market. We have a fantastic Police Department. We work to maintain a historical and small town feel while looking to the future. We have great school systems and have you ever noticed how our roads (even the subdivision streets) are being cleared of snow before 7 am when surrounding communities don't even see this type of response on their main roads?
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#58 Janet Leslie 1999-11-29 20:00
I think the exodus began about three years ago when we began to see homes go into foreclosure throughout the community.

Unless the state passes legislation to allow communities such as Holly to refinance municipal bonds to lengthen the repayment period and reduce the size of the payments (and by the way, we should all get behind that initiative), our only salvation is to find ways to encourage new residents to move into the community.
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#59 TIM 1999-11-29 20:00
This really should come as no surprise. Here the Pulte fiasco is biting us again! And again it is the residents that suffer. The vacant homes is NOT our fault. I certainly agree with Joe that a mass exodus will begin...WHAT THEN? Can't you people see you are taxing us to death and taking the food out of the mouths of the Holly residents on fixed incomes? This is so incredibly sad and disheartening. Isn't there anything that can be done other than raising our bills all the time?
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#60 Larry 1999-11-29 20:00
What a tower of jello this Bill Kuyk is. He got us into this situation in the first place with his precious "Pulte Agreement" and now in an election year he votes against any measure to fix his stupid mistake. We should put him on the township's payroll, he has single handedly done more to tear this village apart than any other single councilman, ever! Remember that this November!!!
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#61 Kelly 1999-11-29 20:00
Great, I cannot afford to pay the current rates. I have been unemployed for over a year. You need to look at collecting from the many people who never pay, not us who do pay. The additional $10 per month that was added along with the higher rates almost killed me. Now what?
Maybe all of you on Council can afford this, but I know many of us who cannot. I used to love this community. If I could afford to, I would sell my house and move. I know that I have changed my decision to try to stay in Holly when looking for work. The taxes and water bills are just too high.
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#62 Joe 1999-11-29 20:00
And so, let the mass exodus begin...
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#63 JP 1999-11-29 20:00
Can someone provide the expected pay-off date of the bonds? Moreover, I am curious to know if council will revise the rates downward once the bonds are paid...of course, it is unlikely the same folks will be in office when the bill is finally paid; but just really interested to see what happens.
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#64 beadempress 2010-04-24 08:49
thank god the county has taken over the asseements in this town- let's hope the state of michigan takes over the day to day running of holly- It's amazing how this town vicariously enforces its rules and regulations- once you get out of the two block downtown area, the rest of it looks like the ghetto- time to get out the bulldozers-
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#65 Elizabeth 2010-09-07 22:42
Perhaps the county should take over management of Holly's appointed employees. It's not just Marsha Powers abusing their powers. Oh, but then some of us retired, didn't we.
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#66 sdc 2011-03-16 16:57
You have got to be kidding me!? My husband and I both work full time- and already can't afford our water, sewer, taxes etc., for our home that has decreased in value from $149,900 5 years ago when we bought it- to $33,888 taxable value now. Talk about empty houses now-keep raising things- makes the decision of whether to stay in Holly or leave a bit easier. You are killing the honest, hard working people who want to stay, raise our kids here, and see Holly prosper.
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#67 localyokel 2011-04-05 11:51
What a difference a year makes. I hear tonight the Council will meet to discuss adding a $30 dollar MONTHLY fee to all our bills. HOW CAN THIS BE STOPPED? Its unconscionable what they are doing to our families. I cant afford water as it is.l What next?
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#68 david keely 2012-03-02 11:55
I know I'm posting this late. I read earlier on peoples thoughts on how to get more business into holly. Years ago, there was a lot of music in holly.There was 2 places with live, good music right downtown. And, every weekend holly was thriving. The arts were here and people sought it out. People come to visit seeking the quaint village and hearing some good music. Is there any effort to doing this? I think it made holly unique when it happened before.
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#69 Janet Leslie 2012-03-03 02:20
David, I had lunch at Bittersweet Cafe this afternoon, and they had an excellent musical duo playing live music. Later, I stopped into the Blackthorn Pub to wish a friend a happy birthday, and they also had a live musical duo. Capital Music regularly hosts live concerts, and in the summer the Holly Mill does as well. I'd love to see even more live music in Holly, but there is quite a bit as it is.
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#70 mickeysmouse30 2012-07-10 18:59
oh no and i,m moving to holly. wonder if i still should.
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