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HOLLY, Michigan – Suzanne Perreault, former director for Holly’s Downtown Development Authority, always thought a full-blown, professional market research survey was the next logical step for the village to take in luring prospective developers and businesses into the community. With an estimated price tag of $15,000, it never happened.
In September, the Holly Area Economic Development Task Force was born – a group of concerned area citizens from throughout the community, interested in identifying ways to help spur economic development not only in the village, but also in the township.
Charged with leading the group is Holly Township Trustee Janet Leslie, who over the course of just five months, has managed to enlist the help of resident Ryan Bladzik, Owner/Principal of Great Lakes Creative Marketing and Communications.
Seeing a real need in the community, last fall, Bladzik offered the services of his company at cost.
“The good news is that we’re not here to ask you for money, and there is no bad news because we just want to show you what we’ve done so far and also to ask for your support for an exciting project that we’re in the midst of working on right now,” Leslie told Holly Village Council members on Tuesday.
With the primary mission of developing a long-term vision for the Holly community, Leslie said the EDTF hopes learn what the community will look like over the next two decades.
“The 20 or so people that came to the initial meeting probably could have sat around and written beautiful vision for the community, but it wouldn’t have had any teeth because it would have been our opinions,” Leslie said. “We felt it was necessary to gain as much input from the community as possible, and also to have the support and endorsement of the councils, boards and commissions in the community.”
To date, the group has taken part in visioning exercises, conducted a SWOT (Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities, and Threats) analysis, and held two focus groups aimed in gaining qualitative input on what people think the community is all about, what direction they would like to see the community go in the future.
Bladzik said after attending a few EDTF meetings as a concerned resident, he began to realize that before any action could be taken by the group, more information was needed. “No business or organization would ‘shoot in the dark’ on figuring out which way to go and what to do without weighing all the different possibilities there are, without getting input, or without analyzing the situation,” he said.
On Jan. 16, Bladzik conducted two focus groups – one consisting of average residents from both the village and the township, and the other, a group consisting of community leaders and public officials.
“Some of the participants in the resident group were long term residents and others were newcomers,” Bladzik said. “Some were old, some were young – it was really a well-balanced group that gave their perspectives on a variety of things about the community – good and bad things, challenges, downfalls, perceptions and misperceptions.
“The second focus group was the people who are more involved in the community,” he said. “Village Council, Township Board, Holly Chamber of Commerce, business owners, developers, festival coordinators and school board members.”
After both focus group sessions, Bladzik compared and contrasted the data and feedback from the two groups, and discovered some very interesting similarities and differences.
“Everybody agrees that they like the small town America appeal that Holly offers,” he said. “They like the slower pace, the rural community – knowing who your neighbors are without the growth or busy atmosphere of a city.” Additionally, Bladzik said that there was a general consensus that community involvement and community spirit are somewhat low.
“The interesting thing is that each group defined the term, ‘community involvement’ differently,” he said. “The residents didn’t feel that they were either aware of or there were ample opportunities to get involved – whether it be activities to participate in or for their kids to participate in, whereas the leadership group really looked at it from a more practical or pragmatic point of view – that there aren’t enough volunteers for everything that we need to do.”
With the data collected from both groups, Bladzik developed a 37-question marketing survey with over 200 data points covering the categories of demographics and employment, consumer habits, dining habits, opinions and attitudes, lifestyle information, media and information, and activities and hobbies.
Bladzik said the EDTF would like to mail the survey out to 2,000 randomly selected households in the Holly Area School District with prepaid first class return envelopes. By including prepaid return envelopes, Bladzik says the group hopes to get at least 400 surveys sent back.
Leslie said the Holly Area Chamber of Commerce has offered the EDTF the use of a copier machine to keep printing costs at a minimum. Leslie said she and Bladzik attended Monday's Holly DDA Board of Directors meeting, asking members to consider contributing $1,700 toward postage costs for the surveys. Needing more time to think over the issue, the DDA tabled the issue until next month.
“Is the township going to pay for any of this, or is it all out of the DDA?” Councilwoman Pauline Kenner asked.
Out of consideration for budget concerns, Leslie said the EDTF opted to ask the DDA for the funds. “The DDA, we felt, stands to benefit the most,” she said.
On Wednesday, Holly Township Clerk Karin Winchester confirmed that Holly Township also contributes financially to the DDA, last year capturing a combined total of $22,877.42 in Tax Increment Financing Act funds for the DDA from the township itself, the township library and the township parks.
“What do you intend to do with this survey?” Councilwoman Reisa Hamilton asked. “I know you have wonderful intentions, but if we’re going to spend $1,700 on a survey, quite frankly, I feel like it’s still my money and I’d like to know that it’s going to come to some good use.”
Should the surveys go out, Leslie said the resulting data would be made available to the public. “It will be information that the DDA Director will have in hand to present to anybody considering locating a business to Holly, or will be information that all of our business owners can use to look for opportunities in growing their business,” she said.
“I feel the survey is a golden opportunity to get input from the grass root people here – the 10,000 residents – I know you’re only going for 2,000,” resident Larry Lilly said. “But I think this would benefit all of us because we’ve never had a survey here to get the input from people about what they really want, and it’s not going to cost much to get it.”
Hamilton made the motion to table the matter until the DDA has had the opportunity to remove the issue from the table and make a decision about the $1,700 request for funding.
The DDA Board of Directors is expected to discuss the matter at their upcoming March 8 meeting, and Village Council will revisit the issue when they convene on March 9.
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Comments
Now, I am not aware of the owners of El Potrero being Chamber members or attending Chamber meetings or being active in the DDA, but if they were they might have been informed of those licenses. Perhaps they did know about them but simply didn't qualify.
At any rate, if the village finds a way to hire a DDA director again, I would hope that informing business owners of opportunities like that would be a priority. I wonder, if there is no DDA director, who will be responsible for making sure our local businesses have the tools they need to survive?
They left Holly to make room for (yet another) Pizza place going in at the empty strip mall across from Holly Foods. They indicated they had tried for several years to get a liquor license to grow their business but to no avail. They simply could not stay in the area because they could not compete with other local businesses that do have licenses and they could not stay where they were due to a new tenant wanting their space. They are now looking for something in Fenton where the liquor licenses are apparently easier to obtain. While I dont claim to know all the details of the situation that led them to pull out of our community, I feel such a loss for all of us that this small business is gone.
What a missed opportunity for Holly. This is exactly the type of business we need in this area. Small, family run, interested in growing with our community. The fact that the landlord would rather have yet another pizza place in their otherwise empty plaza speaks volumes to what we all fear - that our community is dying and cannot even support our current restaurants. That this small business could not get a liquor license (I dont know the process but really, why make it so difficult on new businesses?) so they could compete with other establishments is tragic.
I will now drive to Flint to get my mexican fix but sure enjoyed the convenience of having this outstanding business in our little town. It seems to me we are fighting a losing battle and it is so frustrating to see all the bickering about surveys when we let the gems we have fade into oblivion without even a blip on the radar...
Changes have been made based in part on the recommendations of those groups, and a revised copy of the survey was provided to Village Manager Marsha Powers last week to distribute to the DDA Board and to the Village Council prior to their deliberations.
I am not sure how flower pots "enable an economically prosperous future" compared to this survey but it seems that some people on the DDA board have lost site of the DDA's mission statement.
About the idea of a specialty store, I wonder if a Market Survey would tell us if there was enough support in the community for such an entity to be economically viable?
Wonder what such a survey would cost?
Lets see, 10,000 residents, $1700. Incredible $0.17 per resident to find out if various enterprises could survive economically in Holly. Seems like a good idea to me. And a great idea for anyone even considering opening a business in town.
This kind of vision doesn't preclude some chain stores and restaurants from being welcome. I'd gladly welcome a Panchero's or Jimmy Johns, as long as they aren't what "define" Holly commerce.
The best way to ensure that everyone moves full steam ahead in a common direction on business development is by voting the entrenched obstructionists out of office. Short of that Iââà¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ã¢à ƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¾Ã‚¢m afraid that comprehensive business development will move along at the snails pace that it always has. As for midtown development the Village is currently working with some of the owners of midtown property in order to compel them to either demolish or improve their existing sites. Recently the Village acquired a parcel on Saginaw Street that came back to us for taxes. It is our goal to clean up this property and neighbouring properties (if the owners will agree) using funds from the âââ €šÂ¬Ã†¦ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…“Brownfield Redevelopment Financing Actââà ƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ãâ⠂¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â. I guess my view is that I would rather have an empty field ready for new development, than a boarded up building located on the main drag through town. Unfortunately having to deal with Federal âââ €šÂ¬Ã†¦ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…“red tapeââ ‚¬Ãâ €šÃ‚ÂÂ, takes a frustrating amount of time. On a brighter note though a developer has recently submitted site plans for a proposed brewery/tap room to the Village Planning Commission. The building is to be located on the corner of Seminole and Saginaw across from Ganshaw Park.
A couple follow-up questions Iââà¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ã¢à ƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¾Ã‚¢d like to ask are 1) Assuming a general consensus is reached from the survey regarding a vision for business development, how will can we try to ensure that all parties move âââ €šÂ¬Ã†¹Ãƒâ€¦Ã¢â‚¬Å“full steam aheadâà¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ãà ‚¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢? in a common direct? âââ €šÂ¬Ã ¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¦and 2) You mentioned downtown and uptown development, but have you see any opportunities âââ €šÂ¬Ã†¹Ãƒâ€¦Ã¢â‚¬Å“midtownÃà ƒâ€šÃ‚¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å ¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬à …¾Ã‚¢? I donââà ƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ã ¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¾Ã‚¢t consider it a priority vs. the other two, but I know many envision Saginaw St. being a beautiful, inviting corridor welcoming folks from the downtown to uptown, or vice versa. But to me, one of the challengesâà ƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚¬ â€Â Âespecially as it relates to this areaââ ‚¬Ã ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚ÂÂis evolving and growing in the midst of many buildings, structures, and livelihoods that have taken shape for the better part of the last century. There are obviously a lot of commercial/industrial lots along this stretch, but I also think there are many opportunities to better take advantage of it. Iââà¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ã¢à ƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¾Ã‚¢d just be curious if you have any thoughts on this topic.
I think the website you recommended says it all.
You say little but you speak volumes.
Thanks!
There are so many people, including Darrin and others who comment here, trying to get this community on the right track. Let's not spoil the efforts by planting seeds of suspicion. If someone does something with which you disagree, say who did it and why you believe it was wrong. Making vague accusations doesn't solve anything, because none of us can act upon them.
Im not insulted, I just take exception to you spinning out "versions of the truth" and adding second hand hearsay just to make the Village and Village officials look bad. As if we need your help.
But, as Ryan Bladzik said last night in his presentation to the Holly Township Board of Trustees, it doesn't matter to the EDTF where the money comes from, as long as we get the survey out and are able to share the results with the community at large.
And here's some good news...the township board voted unanimous approval for the survey.
And Pete, I'm also sorry you're easily insulted. I solely blame you for this disposition.
That being said, Carol said it best. The passion shown on this forum has been inspiring. I think we've learned:
1) Financial support for a drastically-discounted survey is a no-brainer given the ROI, and impacted stakeholders should jump at the chance to support it (you could equate it to someone offering you a dozen paczkis for the price of one, only the benefits last much longer than a 1-hour sugar buzz)
2) Fenton might not be as evil as some have assumed, but confirmation is needed (see item 1)
3) Many are proud of what Holly is today and are even prouder of what it can become
Can you imagine offering current business owners data compiled that pertains specifically to their business! How exciting it would be to show them a document that outlines how they could possibly increase revenue by making simple changes.
Imagine new business coming into the community that caters to the needs of the residents, transients, and consumers. How wonderful!
And finally in defence of the merchants in this community, has anyone sat down with them? A simple one on one conversation asking them about their respective business, not as a group but one on one. Why are they not open evenings? What type of market research could help them grow?
I am happy to see so many people passionate about this topic. It means that this community means somthing to them. This survey is the first step to obtaining information that should have been done with the Main Street program came to Holly. This project will be a long term process and key to making Holly a better place to live, work, and visit.
What local take out business are you talking about? If it's the one I'm thinking about, they were forced to give up because building renovations to meet state and federal codes were simply too expensive. Handicap accessible bathrooms and Proper Venting have nothing to do with the Village other than the fact that we have to enforce said codes. The notion that Village officials were influenced by competing businesses to make it tough on these people is absolutely false and rather insulting.
I'm guessing the "local takeout establishment" you're referring to is Big Tony's. Owner Tony Kline had hoped to move into a larger location on Saginaw. You would have to ask Mr. Kline himself why he ultimately gave up on that project, but there were some misunderstandings regarding what was required by law to bring the space into conformity as a restaurant, and these seemed to be cleared up when Mr. Kline brought his concerns to the Village Council. But, far from encountering resistance from other business owners, when Mr. Kline made his case, Council Chambers was filled with fellow Chamber of Commerce members (including myself)there to show support for his goals. All of this was reported by local media.
On the other hand, it is true that the owner of the Wendy's on Grange Hall Road is threatening to sue the Village of Holly if a Taco Bell is allowed to go into the adjacent property. Taco Bell came before the Village Zoning Board of Appeals to ask for an extension on the site plan approved last year, and Wendy's showed up to say that this violates a contract Wendy's had with the seller of the property. I don't know how that justifies threatening to sue the village, but before you blame some nameless "leader" for blocking Taco Bell, you should know that the village is not standing the way. And although Wendy's may be attempting to stand in the way, Taco Bell hasn't broken ground yet because of their own business priorities, not because of hassle or politics.
We're obviously on the same side here, Darrin, that is, the side of progress. Nevertheless, it frustrates me when you and others use nebulous accusations to prove your points. There's plenty of real blame to go around.
And this lack of goal alignment goes well beyond operating hours. Some are directly opposed to some forms of growth due to increased competition. Nevermind the fact that increasing the total level of offerings will attract more folks to Holly as a whole; but some just look at it through a very narrow window. Recently, when a local takeout establishment wanted to expand and relocate into the heart of the Village, it was forced to give up due to the endless hassle and politics involved. And Iââà¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ã¢à ƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¾Ã‚¢m sure part of the politics stemmed from the existence of one or two other nearby establishments that have been planted here for years and really didnââ ‚¬Ã ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t want the competition. Itââà ¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚¬Ã¢ „¢s a shame that not even a local business could grow here in Holly.
Ultimately, we need to understand that a high tide floats all boatsâà¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ãà ¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¦ Whatââ ‚¬Ã ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s good for visitors and residents is good for business and good for Holly. With a cohesive plan, we can build a long-term model where you canââà ƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ã ¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¾Ã‚¢t afford NOT to be open on Sundays. âââ €šÂ¬Ã ¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¦and where you canââà ƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ã ¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¾Ã‚¢t afford NOT to want other businesses to help enhance what our community has to offer. The lifestyles of residents will be greatly enhanced and more dollars will be brought in to support the community and local economy in more ways than can meet the eye.
The majority of residents I have spoken to over the past two or three years are rabidly in favor of economic development, and the lack of it is one of their biggest disappointments with community leadership. When I read Carol's statement, "I have always felt that if anyone wants to change the existing merchants they are going down the wrong road. The existing merchants are doing what they feel is right for them," a frightening thought crossed my mind. What if the desires of residents and merchants are opposed? While we know that residents want a place to go on a Friday after work to do some shopping and dining, and that they wish downtown Holly better satisfied those desires, what if what downtown merchants want is to do business in a town so quiet they can close up at 4pm on a Friday to go home and start dinner? What if the mid-priced bar and grill residents so desperately want downtown would cause grief for downtown merchants who do not want to feel obligated to respond to increased evening foot-traffic? What if the only increase in sales downtown merchants desire is an increase that occurs between 11am and 4pm, Tuesday through Saturday? If this is so, then it's no wonder the merchants don't want to hear it when residents try to explain to them that their business (and therefore, the community) would grow if only they would keep longer and more consistent hours. If their goals are not to increase business, but rather to maximize their time at home, we are talking to nothing more than the historic brick walls that shelter their shops.
I would assume that those who have accepted positions on the DDA board would be fervent about seeking opportunities for development, as after all, the purpose of the board is DOWNTOWN DEVELOPMENT. So these should be the people most likely to support longer, consistent hours, and to support the accumulation of data that could lead to new businesses coming into the area, even those whose presence may compel them to respond to the demands of an increasing market.
But what if they are not?
Honestly, it was just another Holly weekend. That merchants' group website promised a whole lot more than I witnessed. How is it that these "events" get planned and only a couple of stalwart shopkeepers stick to the plan? They are trying to realize a goal - when the team effort drops around them. And yes - suppose you're not interested in antiques or trinkets? Have we developed a feminized main street? Well, maybe if there were a couple more men around to jump in and put out - the landscape could evolve. It seems that all the testosterone disappears when the hardware store and the lumberyard close for the day!
That old car dealership would be a great location for a pub. What ever happened to the downtown steakhouse? Merchants group? DDA? You're holding yourselves hostage.
All I know is I dropped the wife off downtown on Sunday for that Love Struck shopping thing while I went out north of town to run some errands and when I picked her up she said most of the shops were closed even though they said they'd be open for this special weekend deal. You might have been open but 90% of everybody else wasn't. And you wonder why people don't come shop in downtown Holly? Just tell them an event is going on and then not show up to open your doors when they actually make the effort to come. I don't think you need s survey for that.
It quickly becomes very frustrating!
It works both ways....
My greatest concern is that we get data, validate what I believe to be true (people want more growth, including familiar brands), only to have Marsha Powers (and others in similar roles) disregard it because it doesn't mesh with what they personally believe or what close friends/allies believe. But we can cross that bridge when we get to it.
FWIW, getting data outside of the community is obviously tougher. If there was the capacity to do so, I would recommend a telephone survey of about 1000 people in the state of Michigan, asking some of the same consumer behavior and market segment questions, but focusing more on preferences in community qualities and aspects (for potential residents) and tourism and vacation questions. You don't need to ask what people think of Holly specifically, only what compels people to live, work, play and visit where they do.
I'm sure, though, that the creativity and innovation that has produced a community market research survey for less than 10% of a conventional cost can be used to collect that sort of data, too.
I have always felt that if anyone wants to change the existing merchants they are going down the wrong road. The existing merchants are doing what they feel is right for them.
What we need is data. Hard data to feed to any prospective companies, and new residents looking to move into our community. The only way we can do this is with information collected from three sources. First, our residents, secondly the people that work in our community and not live here, and lastly the people that come into our community to spend money.
If/when a new DDA director is hired they can use this information. Real Estate Agents should also be using this data if they are looking at leasing commercial property, or selling property.
As residents we should be happy to provide feedback both positive, and give constructive criticism about Holly. Other communities do this and have developed profitable downtown, and commercial areas. Google community surveys. Research what other communities have done with similar data.
Most importantly, if the community, our boards, commissions, and councils are not going to support the survey how do we expect them to support the data that it provides? It is a double edge sword. This is not the first time this survey has been brought in front of the DDA and met with resistance.
Sorry about the spelling. I have had far too many Paczki's from Holly Donut today!
I think a survey of those outside of our community could be done rather inexpensively if we did what some have suggested, and survey visitors to the Renaissance Festival. The survey could be handed out with the promise of a drawing of respondents at a certain point in the day. This would serve a dual purpose, as the drawing could be for donated gift certificates from Holly merchants, which may lead festival-goers to our town. I don't know that this survey would be scientific, but it would give us a snapshot of what outsiders think of Holly.
The third survey could also be done inexpensively. I think we should survey visitors to Holly. This could be done with short survey cards found at the cashier counters of area businesses. Again, I don't think that this kind of survey could be considered scientifically valid, but it would give us an idea of why visitors come to Holly, and how they rate the experience when they do.
How does that sound, Goodman?
There is a lot of ways to make improvements and maybe the best way to handle it is to focus on a few things to completion and not use such a broad approach. When was the last time any of our community leaders and groups were armed with such quantitative data to help the progression of Holly?
Some might not see it as worth all the "hullabaloo" but there seems to be a fair amount (just speaking from responses here) that feel it may be worth the investment. Don't get me wrong, I don't believe this is the "duct tape" to fix everything. I just see it as a valuable tool that can increase the potential that already exists. If it is used to help bring in one successful business it has paid for itself in my eyes.
On that note, I would like to commend Holly and Dan Jablonski of the Holly Candle Shoppe for their continued commitment to the quality of the experience of visiting their store, and for their commitment to the overall goals of the downtown and to the economic viability of the community as a whole. I visited downtown twice during the Lovestruck event this weekend. On my second trip, at about 6:30 Saturday evening, the only "open" sign I could find was at the Holly Candle Shoppe.
While I believe strongly in the potential of the market research survey to assist business owners and community leaders throughout the Holly area, nothing is as valuable to any community as the commitment of time, energy, and resources made by the visionary entrepreneur.
The bigger task will be to bring the merchants - who all seem to all have their own agenda - to work together. Make no mistake, the success and failure of the new Director sits directly on the fact of whether or not this person will be able to rally the downtown merchants and get their support.
In addition, I believe the new Director will have an even larger task of making events happen this year with no budget and most cash coming from fund raisers and donations... all the while trying to keep the Village Council happy and being the fall guy (person) for Downtown, taking a beating every time someone thinks the Village fell short on a Downtown event or on progress, despite it being largely out of that Director's control.
I certainly agree this survey will help... but making an argument of how much this survey is going to help the Director on a day-to-day basis is blowing things a little out of proportion. I think we can all agree the future Director will have bigger issues and bigger fish to fry when he or she is eventually hired.
Thank you for your comments but I assure you that I assume nothing. In your last post to this string you quoted facts and figures that were specific and intimate to the last DDA meeting. Therefore either you were in the room at the time or you are extremely well informed by somebody who was. In either case the message that you echo is to protect what we have now and eschews those things that may help with future development. You bring nothing new to the table and you fail to grasp the concept that Holly simply cannot continue to stagnate financially while our neighbouring communities grow their tax bases at our expense. You're right about one thing though, I am influenced by a certain relationship. Itââà ¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚¬Ã¢ „¢s my relationship with the Holly community and my hope for its future success. Whether I hold and office or not in this community the bottom line is that I still live here and have a vested interest in seeing this community succeed. To propose that the focus of the DDA should be âââ €šÂ¬Ã†¦ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…“party planningâà ¢â€šÂ¬Ã ƒâ€šÃ‚ diminishes the concept of âââ €šÂ¬Ã†¦ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…“developmentà ƒÆ’¢âââ ‚¬Å¡Ã‚¬Ã‚à ƒâ€šÃ‚ that figures so prominently in the DDAââà ƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ã ¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¾Ã‚¢s name.
Finally to answer the question that you posed me, my answer is to suggest that you take a stroll around the downtown and look at the amount of investment dollars that are being poured into the district. Look at the renovations that Bob Hoffman is making to 101 Saginaw, the third largest building in town. Walk across the street and check out the huge investment that Jimmy and Faye have made to the Downtown Holly Party Shoppe. Stop by Holly Mills, Pigeon in the Parlour, Bittersweet CafÃÃà ¢â‚¬Å¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚©, Holly Candle Shoppe, and Janieâà¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ãà ‚¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s Coffee Shop. What you will find are but a few examples of astute business people who are investing in Holly today in hopes for a better tomorrow.
The DDA is saving $5100 per month. One thought is to use it to bolster events and other DDA programs. Another thought is to use it to fund survey research. Why not both? One month's savings covers both the survey and leaves $3400 for other programs. Then add in another month. And another month.
But I want to take that a step further. This is my own personal view, purely anecdotal. I would rather see DDA money be invested in growing and expanding business downtown instead of more events. Allow me to snap a picture: I am a 31 year old male with two young children. My hobbies are cooking and running/fitness. I like reading and long walks on the beach and Italian food. As a taxpayer and consumer in Holly, what businesses or events interest me? Ladies Night Out? Antique, furniture and houseware stores? Nope. Any stores for my kids? Nope. Any book stores or news stands? Nope. Dickens Festival--since no stores cater to my lifestyle needs, I'm not terribly compelled to go for more than a little while to hear carolers and eat some chestnuts.
Based on Suzanne Perrault's DDA district inventory, a majority of the retail or service businesses in the historic downtown appeal to a female market, early-middle-age and older, with higher disposable income. That excludes me and about 15 of my neighbors in either direction of me. Perhaps, this market accurately reflects the overall Holly community market and business development is not needed, but how would you know without researching that theory?
As for the dozen reasons to not have a survey, give me a dozen reasons why Holly does need this data. Anyone can sit around and turn anything into a negative or drawback and use it as an excuse not to take action. Yes, the survey has a shelf-life of a couple of years. Yes, there are opportunity costs. Yes, businesses might not have ability to expand or capitalize immediately. Yes, Canada could invade and take over Holly. Yes, a black hole might swallow the earth.
I apologize for the sarcasm, but if all you do is focus on why something shouldn't or can't be done, then nothing will ever be done. We can be thoughtful and deliberate in our decisions without obstructing progress.
I can tell you other communities that have festivals are mostly self funded and reinvest that money into future festivals (the Jaycees have 6 festivals in Frankenmuth and bring in $600,000+). They do this through successful planning and the collective effort of volunteers. I don't think it is entirely on the DDA's shoulders to fund or support festivals (although they should take an active part).
I can also tell you that a DDA director will be more successful with survey results in hand when selling Holly to potential new businesses. It is much easier to show prospective entrepreneurs survey figures about the lifestyles and spending habits of locals as opposed to saying, "Well people generally say..." or "Your business would be successful because the vocal minority says..."
There is more to Holly than the two or three square blocks that is "downtown" and as a community we should broaden our focus a little. How many vacant buildings have been sitting in the middle of our community (not in historic downtown) vacant and deteriorating for years? The old Joseph Pontiac building is literally crumbling. It is sitting right in the middle of our community and is nothing more than an eye sore. We have a main road with a large amount of traffic between two main highways (Grange Hall Road) and it is under developed for the volume of traffic (in my opinion). These are tax dollars that Holly isn't capitalizing on.
Keep the historic and unique "downtown" but lets bring in some of the big box stores as well and put them throughout the rest of the area. Each of our neighboring communities have done this, some with more success than others, and we could learn from them. We don't have to reinvent the wheel here.
We don't have to be Fenton, but we can learn from them by observing the positives and negatives.
Correct it's not the DDA's money, but the pepole's - and the DDA is here to support those within this community.
Great the DDA is saving money without paying the director salary, how much would that $5100.00/month saved help Dickens or Carry Nation? Or assist in paying off the streetscape? Or help in expanding & advertising Ladies Night? Or bring back Blews, Brews & Barbeque?
I'm not going to argue with you, you have your opinion (could yours be inlfuenced because of a certain relationship?) and I have mine.
I do have one question, say this survey is completed & the info is out there for those interested....how many actually have the money to expand, start or reformat their business today? Or next year for that matter?
As for who should be responsible for funding this project, I should hope that at the price of it, there should be a line to contribute. We honestly felt that the DDA and some of its directors would be in prime position to take advantage of the opportunity. I look at merchants like Kel Leigh Coale, who run successful businesses and are building cooperative business efforts (the bridal district), and think about how market research data would specifically benefit them. For example, the survey asks respondents whether photography is a hobby--she could use that info to get a elementary gauge on teaching amateur photography classes and what kind of demographics and segments to structure her marketing messages. The survey also asks about music preferences--an excellent data point for anyone selecting entertainment at events. The survey asks about media usage--which will help any merchant determine how to maximize their advertising dollars, or how event organizers can best promote their events.
There really is no limit to how the data can be directly applied, and it can be safely generalized to the Holly Community, not just the specific respondents or a small segment of the population.
I’ve been around long enough know what is likely to happen with this task force survey. The DDA, village and township will refuse to fund it for $1,700 at this time because they just donââà ƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ã ¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¾Ã‚¢t see the value. Then a few years down the road, some agency will approach the DDA/village/township and offer a matching grant to do the exact same survey. The cost of this future survey to the taxpayers a few years from now even with the matching grant will be on the order of $10,000 to $15,000 dollars. And the DDA/village/township will jump all over it all the while patting themselves on the back for saving the taxpayers all that money. Bear in mind Jen, this is the peopleâà¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚¬Ã ¢â€žÂ¢s money, not the DDAââà ƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ã ¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¾Ã‚¢s. These taxes are levied to fund future development in the DDA district. I question how it is that you know what future development we should be planning for, without commissioning a survey or study from time to time. Shooting from the hip with the âââ €šÂ¬Ã†¦ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…“shotgunÃÆ ’¢ââ₠¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ã‚  approach that Darlene mentions has not worked in the past and will not work in the future. Planned comprehensive growth of this community is the only surefire recipe for success.
In the first place, I directed the task force to the DDA to ask for funding. It wasnââ ‚¬Ã ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t the other way around. Letââà ƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ã ¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¾Ã‚¢s face it folks, the village and township are both cash strapped and unable to commit funds for any projects outside of the necessary administration of government at this time. On the other hand, the DDA, while not flush with cash, is saving $5,100 a month by not having a director on the payroll.
Jen, as I believe that you are a DDA board member writing under a pseudonym, allow me to correct a few of your statements. One, the DDA is not the main funding source for either the Dickens Festival or the Carry Nation Festival. While the DDA may from time to time donate to these festivals, our only official involvement is to allow them the use of our insurance, much in the same fashion that the parks system allows the fireworks committee use of their insurance. Former DDA directors have voluntarily donated their time and efforts to help coordinate with the festival committees, but this is not an official function of the director. Two, I donââà ƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ã ¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¾Ã‚¢t think that anyone is being naÃÃâ €šÃ‚¯ve about how much money the DDA has, but by the same token with every month that goes by without a director, they have more to allocate to other programs. Donââà ƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ã ¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¾Ã‚¢t get me wrong, Iââà¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ã¢à ƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¾Ã‚¢m not advocating that the DDA not hire a director, but the reality is that it will take the rest of February and likely all of March before a new director can be hired and seated. We have already addressed a reduction in the salary and benefits package for the new director and these savings should ease the TIF capture shortfall for this coming fiscal year. Three, funding for the DDA is not solely from the Village. The DDA district captures money from the Township Library, Parks and General Fund. Your derogatory statement questioning how much the township is putting toward the task force survey was misguided at best. This âââ €šÂ¬Ã†¦ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…“UsÃà ‚¢Ã¢â€š ¬Â versus âââ €šÂ¬Ã†¦ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…“Themà ¢ââ€Å ¡Ã‚¬Ã‚ mindset is, in my opinion, the number one reason that this community stagnates in mediocrity when we should be setting the new example.
My point is, if the survey has been built, the lack of available funds by no means should be what holds this from being executed... there are always ways that can be equally effective and low cost.
If we need to stand in the intersections holding a fireman's boot or using a local parking lot to wash cars to collect funds for this project, sign me up. I truly feel our community deserves this.
In other words, if you want to know how to get more people to shop downtown, you don't ask only those who already shop there. You also ask those who don't.
I think using area merchants to distribute a survey might be more useful in the event that we decide to conduct a correlated survey of visitors to our community. ("What brought you to Holly today?" "Did your visit meet your expectations?" etc.)
Keep the ideas coming! Just the fact that so many of us are discussing ways of moving the community forward is very encouraging.
As I said before, there is nothing keeping the DDA (or anyone else) from shopping around and comparing services but I strongly doubt there are others that can come close to this proposal.
Jen, I don't believe that any organization has an excess of funds to spend on any 'want' at this point, let alone in Michigan or in Holly. If this survey was conducted 3 or even 5 years ago, do you think we would be in the same boat or in a little better position? It's not something that can be proved, but I am betting that we would be a little better off (at least we would have substantial direction from the community).
I don't think the DDA owes the EDTF anything except some gratitude for the efforts that the EDTF has contributed. My thought process is that if the DDA sees that this survey is long overdue (as does many) then it may feel compelled to contribute some of the cost. Especially if there hasn't been a salary going out to a director since January.
Who says the community wants or can support an upscale restaurant with a wine cellar and a banquet center? How would that effect existing businesses? Overall, is that the direction the community feels Holly should move in? These aren't answers that can be gathered without determining the communities interests and spending habits. It would be nice but if it isn't sustainable then the building will be empty again.
If we can be creative in finding a way to keep other activities that cost much more going (like the fireworks or the Carry Nation Festival) I am sure there is a way to fund this survey. If the DDA determines it can't contribute to the cost, I would hope that the project isn't discarded.
As of right now, we have no real understanding of what our citizens would like to see in our Village and the surrounding area. We do have a lot of opinions, but no verifiable data to support why we have these opinions.
I strongly believe that the entire community, Village, Township, Chamber, DDA, the Councils and the surrounding area, should support this effort to find out where our citizens would like to see the community in five years, ten years, etc.
The data, even if valid for five years or so, is still valid, and can give us some real insight into the future of the Holly Area
Of course, anyone interested in it can use it. Free.
Lets see, Ten Thousand residents in 48442 works out to 17 cents per person. Ryan, sign me up to support five peoples share. I will give you a dollar and you can keep the change.
As I stated, if the Village, DDA & Township finances were in a better state this survey could be beneficial. But right now that $1700.00 could be spent a hundred different ways on equally worthwhile projects.
Jason, you seem to be of the opinion that the DDA owes this to the task force, that itââà ¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚¬Ãâ₠¬Â¹Ãƒâ€¦Ã¢â‚¬Å“s the DDAââà ƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¡Ã‚¬Ã ¢ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã…¾Ã‚¢s responsibility to fund the task force agenda,(âà ¢â€šÂ¬Ã ƒâ€¦Ã¢â‚¬Å“Also, what is stopping the DDA from seeking alternative means to generate the $1700?.....If the DDA is truly interested the DDA should be seeking the funds right?âà¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚¬Ã ‚ÂÂÂ). It's easy to make suggestions about what others should be doing.
The DDA did not ask for this survey, the task force went to them, with their hands out. Why is it the DDAs responsibility to seek alternative funding for the task force? Because in your opinion it would benefit the DDA most? I agree the DDA could benefit, but something else the DDA funds might lose out.
How would you like the DDA to seek alternative funding? They applied for grants for the Village Office survey and were denied. What are the other alternatives? Not fund Ladies Night? Itââà ¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚¬Ã¢ „¢s unfortunate (and ironic) you can so easily dismiss the value in the Village Office Survey while being such a proponent of the task force survey. Proactive things are being accomplished, perhaps not the specific ones the task force would like but they are being accomplished.
There seems to be a misconception that the DDA is flush with cash. But in REALITY the DDA is experiencing their own financial issues and are having to seriously look at their budget & the projects they are ALREADY committed too. Let's not naively assume they just have the money lying around.
I would also suggest, why not make the survey available in PDF format on the Village and Township websites? Heck, why not even make the form interactive so folks can take the survey online and circumvent the whole need for postage and/or collection all together?
The problem is not the delivery or retrieval of these surveys... the hard part should only be getting the word out to the people of Holly so they know where to get the surveys.
Just my two cents...
I'd also like to explain that when the EDTF began discussing how we would finance the distribution of the survey, the first idea suggested was to ask for equal contributions from the village, township, DDA, and Chamber of Commerce. An EDTF member who is also a village resident was quick to point out that the municipalities would not have the excess in their budgets to offer financial help. That is why we chose to ask the village and township for no more than a vote of confidence.
The Chamber of Commerce was generous enough to offer what support they could afford, and we have asked the DDA to cover the remainder of the cost. While it would be preferable to ask for equal contributions from all who stand to benefit, sometimes when the goal is to accomplish something that will benefit the entire community, it is more practical to ask just those who are best able to contribute. We didn't mean to offend anyone by NOT asking for money from the village and the township. We were simply trying to be realistic.
Also, what is stopping the DDA from seeking alternative means to generate the $1700? The EDTF is supporting the DDA directly (not the Village and Township specifically). If the DDA is truly interested the DDA should be seeking the funds right?
As much as I would like to see something happen with the Village Offices, this survey has been long overdue. As for questioning Ryan and his motives, he has invested a large amount of time voluntarily and has promised to do much more. It would be up to the 'investors' to determine if his services are worth while and to negotiate what support they would be receiving after the survey results are compiled.
The longevity of the survey data is a valid concern as well, but in any volatile economic time any survey, regardless of its creator, would potentially have short term relevancy. And the more effective the survey is and the quicker its data is put to use successfully, the shorter its relevancy. Unfortunately it is a static device that doesn't grow or evolve like a survey poll on a website would (hint hint
It is just my personal view but if this survey was done years ago the community would be closer to the vision that we all have of Holly (if that vision could truly be defined without a community survey...).
Whether or not the DDA finds it within its budget to cover the cost of distributing the survey, there is no doubt that there are ample resources in place to utilize the survey results.
To address some of Rita's comments, the various councils and committees have only been able to make decisions based on generalities and the opinions of a small percentage of the Holly community. This survey will allow our community leaders to make informed decisions based on a very specific view of what residents want. In addition to that, this survey can also be a useful tool in selling our community to interested businesses that are seeking a new location (like a brewery?).
As the article states, it seems everyone has a vague idea of how they wish Holly to progress but there isn't a lot of definition or direction. This tool could substantially increase community involvement and reduces the risk of making changes that the general public could end up regretting. I don't see how you could lose by utilizing this survey.
Again great job EDTF and Ryan!
In "theroy" this sounds like a good idea but Ryan makes a very good point, this survey is only worth what officals, leaders & volunteers are willing to do with it. For it to be benefical we need the committment from all Councils, Boards & volunteers for it to be worth spending this money, and at this point we have so many other more pressing issues like the future of Dickens & Carry Nation. I think most residents would like to see a 'tangiable' use of the $1700.00 at the community level.
There are also some questions concerning the marketing firm and the level of experience. When the owner of the marketing firm doesn't sound confident about the community & how the survey results will be used, there's a big red flag. Sounds a bit like ego boosting (by task force) & resume padding. Also, how long will the results be valid? I've been informed, 3-5 yrs. Will that change (be valid for less time) due to the ever changing economy?
The bottom line is the bottom dollar. The DDA is looking at a 12% decrease in their tax capture, add that to the nearly $70,000.00 streetscape loan payment and there isn't much left over for a Director salary (which everyone agrees is needed) & the funding for existing events/programs - i.e. dickens, ladies night out, facade grants, out door dining grants.... The DDA is faced with cutting funding to their existing programs, how can they be asked to support other efforts when they aren't sure they'll have the funds for their existing programs.
The role of the DDA is to support the businesses within it's district (which extends beyond downtown), give businesses a reason to remain in the DDA district as well as attract new businesses. If we have no events (or poorly executed events) and no grants to offer and only survey results how will that help?
There are proactive steps being taken, the Village & DDA are currently conducting a very thorough survey on the Village Offices for the use of a restaurant. The survey will give detailed results and plans for investors of what can be done with the building, not just opinions. The DDA will also have a bill of $4500.00 for this survey.
If the Village, Township & DDA weren't in such a financial pinch this $1700.00 survey may be benefical. But at this point our tax dollars are already being stretched to cover current expenses, lets not add to them when there seems to be a big question as to how helpful this survey will really be.
we're not certain if the resources are in place to utilize this survey.
Of course, I understand wanting to see "tangible" outcomes and products of spending money. But wouldn't you agree that giving the Carry Nation and Dickens Festival planners information on community media usage, interests and activities will help them be more effective in their event planning? Wouldn't the DDA benefit from knowing the shopping habits and lifestyle interests of community residents when promoting the business district to potential investors? Wouldn't the Council and the Township benefit from having employment and industry data to help attract jobs or other beneficial development?
And yes, typically market research is good for approximately 5 years, and is not significantly affected by normal changes in the economy.
A methodical approach of what to put in the spotlight, what to keep off the stage, how to begin (or strengthen) a new phase of what appeals most to everyone is what it sounds like this task force hopes to accomplish.
Why not get the buy-in from the community by finding out through a survey? This is the kind of strategy used by businesses that want to remain successful.
Find the strengths and opportunities. Use them.
A normal research project like this would be a minimum of $15,000, and could conceivably approach $30,000 or more if you also collect regional, state or national data. To get the material cost of this project to less than $2000 shows the motivation and commitment of the EDTF to make this happen, even in the face of lacking resources.
Give me a break. The Task Force can and should work with established organizations when appropriate, but to disregard it just for the sake of doing so is incredibly short-sighted. To me, I really like the direction of the Task Force...I only wish it could move even faster.
Regarding the $1,700, chances are, it'd be worth the investment; only if the data received is turned into actional information. Having said that, given that we are a small community, I'd be open to just dropping the survey off at some pre-determined location (e.g. downtown at the Candle Shop) to save on postage costs. This might hurt the response rate, but perhaps it could be distributed initially to a greater sample to offset this. Just a thought...
The purpose of the task force is not to duplicate the efforts of the DDA or the Chamber of Commerce, but rather to support them. As we are an ad hoc task force, we can focus on projects that may not be within the scope or budget of either of those groups. As volunteers, we dedicate significant time to considering the issue of development without being distracted by other business. Nevertheless, many of us on the task force are also members of the Chamber of Commerce and some of us also volunteer for the DDA. Former DDA Director Suzanne Perreault was an invaluable participant in the formation of the Economic Development Task Force.
The only thing the EDTF is lacking is funding, and so we must ask for assistance from the groups whose efforts we are seeking to support. If the former DDA Director thought a $15,000 market research survey would be valuable, it stands to reason that the same product at the bargain price of $1,700 would be seen as a golden opportunity.
this survey still does nothing for community involvement... it's just "do nothing information". the DDA doesn't have that kind of money to be 'blowing'. it'd be nice if we had that money to put towards some of the mini-events the merchants have been planning to spark community involvement. you're going to get community involvement by giving the people reason to visit our town... they come and you give them a reason to come back...and that grows into them even wanting to extend themselves to volunteer. why would they want to be involved when theres nothing worth being involved in? a survery doesn't equal involvement.
and...why was this extra 'task force' even created when there is such a thing under the DDA? let's stop creating all these extra little groups for the sake of egos and get under the wings of already established organizations like the chamber and dda. they need some major revitalization and from that we can grow events for the community and in turn grab their interest and inspire them to participate!!
Again thank you to the EDTF and Ryan Bladzik (Great Lakes Creative) for the blood, sweat and tears that went into this and to the community leaders on the councils and committees that have supported their efforts and helped where possible. I truly feel that this is a significant stepping stone to the progress of our community.
I looked in Blackthorn Pub the other day and they are really making progress, but it was obvious that it was a LOT of work to begin with. They're supposed to still be on target to open this fall.
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